Getting to the heart of the podcast vs. webcast
Podcast revolution was destiny in action

By Rob Greenlee, WebTalk Radio

I am writing this in response to a October 23, 2004 weblog post by podcaster / weblogger Dave Slusher of EvilGeniusChronicles.org then read my response below his post;

"It does seems like Rob Greenlee is torn and simultaneously understands why this new world of podcasting is exciting but is kind of bugged by it. That's natural enough reaction - he and Dana spent a long time and lots of effort (and I presume money) climbing over the gates of the media system, only to find that they were swung wide open after they are already through. I like the guy and I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he's one of the guys in the "this isn't really an innovation camp." I've been talking against that outlook, and now I'm going to be as blunt as I can be about it."

My (Rob Greenlee) comments below from an article I published on (Oct 23, 2004);

"We are only seeing the very beginning of this time-shifting of audio movement. The truth is that most of this Podcasting news is new "old news" as many radio shows like WebTalk and KenRadio have been offering mp3 downloads for years. The content pioneers of downloadable spoken word content are Audible.com and KenRadio.com as they have been offering content for many years."

Dave Slusher continues weblog post from (Oct 23, 2004);

"Yes, as I've said 1.7 gazillion times, podcasting has no technical innovation whatsover. Trying to figure out why the old- timers in internet audio are not getting their props is asking the wrong question. The correct question is "What have all the old-timers been doing so wrong for so long that a couple-dozen dumbasses writing open source aggregators in their evening and weekends and recording amateur audioblogs have created an excitement in the space of two months that these companies with far greater stakes in the game and far more resources to devote to the problem have failed to do in years of work?

The pioneers are missing the point if they are indignant about the situation. They should be trying to figure out how this motley group of enthused amateurs ate their lunch, and work very quickly about trying to come up with a new lunch. Rob is doing this, by podcasting their shows. The others he cites ought to be paying attention fast, or risk watching the landscape shift underneath them. This is all straight out of what Hugh MacLeod has been on a tear about lately.

Update: To make this clearer, despite the blunt wording above I don't blame any of the old-timers for not having created podcasting or something like it previously. Like I've been saying, until recently it wasn't "steam engine time" and now it is. However, appealing to seniority ain't going to cut it. Despite the injustice of people newer to the party getting the attention, that's the way it is. Time to learn the new dance steps,"

The founders of podcasting have not eaten any of the more established webcaster guys lunch and older webcasters are not looking for props. Webcasters and other radio broadcasters have noticed podcasting and they will be jumping on the podcasting bandwagon soon.

Podcasting is and will continue to be another growing way of distributing digital audio and soon video content. Yet at the same time other webcast distribution methods will still be strong and will continue to pull a larger listeners in the short term.

Podcasting growth will be driven by the quality of content available. Growth will also be based on how easy the RSS aggregator software tools are to use for the average computer user.

The content producers also need simple ways of creating RSS with enclosure mp3 or wma's with bit torrent feeds.

I do respect Dave Slusher and the quality content he produces. I know what it takes to professionally produce audio content for the web. I also know that Dave's talent and skill with his program is the exception not the rule.

Dave Slusher has prior experience doing regular radio programming on a nationally syndicated public radio program about science fiction. Most podcasters do not have a broadcasting or webcasting background, thus some podcasters will thrive and some will struggle to keep up with the difficult process of creating and distributing quality spoken word content. Even terrestrial radio broadcasters will need help and struggle to create an RSS feed with an mp3 enclosure podcast. It is just still too complicated for most to setup.

I am working to help some of the other non-podcasting webcasters to have podcast feeds (see DownloadRadio.org). I am an advocate of podcasting, but let's not forgot how and why we have gotten as far as we have so fast with podcasting.

Webcasters are content producers and not RSS Aggregator developers. I know that Adam Curry and Dave Winer spoke many times with the RSS aggregator software companies about adding support and functionality for RSS enclosures feeds and mostly got zero response. This drove Adam to develop his own application and thus birthed iPodder software, but don't dump the RSS aggregator software development responsibility on the webcast or broadcast content producer.

I think that the podcast revolution was destiny in action and Adam Curry was destined to invent this software because of his MTV celebrity and his hard work efforts around audio and video blogging. He is that rare breed of  "on-air personality" and a true geek. Adam also has that needed "cool factor" needed to spark interest in the independent delivery of content to the also very cool and trendy iPod player.

I do also think that Adam Curry, Dave Winer and Dave Slusher deserve the attention they have gotten by inventing and promoting the iPodder software. Plus those guys inspiring the creation of content that connected the dots between the podcasters and the iPod media player for thousands of people. Those guys have fostered the environment that has enabled others to jump in and create real and personal conversations that are not unlike some of the more popular NPR programming.

The other guy who has significantly contributed to the inspiration for podcasting is Doug Kaye at ITConversations.com. He was one of the first to create an RSS enclosure feed with long form spoken word audio. He was and continues to create discussion programming that has a remarkable amount of real and frank technology issue discussion that really fits well with the definition of today's podcast.

I admit that I was a little slow to pickup on this RSS with enclosures distribution technology. I was only slow to roll it out because it took me many months to get my new WebTalkRadio.com website completed. I had the idea almost a year ago to support enclosures.

I am regularly amazed at how candid and honest the discussions are becoming in some podcasts. One recent podcast done by Dave Winer and Robert Scoble really stood out in my mind, as Dave was very open and brutally honest in his opinions and questions related to Microsoft. Give it a listen for yourself. It is discussion that I would feel uncomfortable doing on WebTalk. But, believe me it has me thinking hard about it. True reality radio has come to podcasting and it is safe to say that the FCC is not overseeing the content being heard in these podcasts.

Dave Winer's questions about Microsoft dropping the ball with its Internet Explorer browser and other discussion topics had Robert Scoble from Microsoft a little concerned for his job at Microsoft. These podcasts can be very brutally honest and that can be a little unsettling, yet kind of refreshing as well.

My WebTalk program is still limited by the FCC as WebTalk Radio is still heard on broadcast radio stations. I must beep four letter words and recently got some angry calls from a local radio station about a recent WebTalk show that accidentally let Dave Slushers, EvilGeniusChronicles.com podcast segment air without beeping out some four-letter words.

The real innovation with the older webcasts programs like KenRadio.com and WebTalk has been producing content every week or every day for years that has evangelized and pushed for greater acceptance and recognition that time-shifting of radio like programs are possible. Audible.com has really been podcasting spoken word content and downloading audio files directly to portable players for many years and I mean many years. They have even been making money doing it and happen to even be a public company.

The real revolution of podcasting is that the light bulb has finally gone off in many peoples minds that they can do this too. It was the same light bulb that went off in my head almost 6 years ago when I started producing WebTalkGuys Radio Shows in a small talk radio station back in 1999 and then took that content out to the web and started webcasting it on Live365.com and then started offering mp3 downloads in 2002.

The other important thing that webcasters have mostly done is play to all distribution platforms and not just one device like the iPod. This really cuts to the heart of the difference between established webcasts and podcasts is the acceptance that podcasts don't need to obtain a large audience to be successful in the eyes of the content creator because most podcasters are not trying to sell advertising or trying to also build distribution on traditional radio stations. Most webcasters have always strived to also be on broadcast radio. The reason for this is that credibility came from broadcast radio and not from the webcast.

The other major distinction between podcasting and webcast radio is that podcasting is really empowering everyone to think that they can be a webcaster or now a podcast content producer. While empowering and giving a voice to millions, is like what happened with personal webpage's and weblogs.

Podcasting is a good thing and will revolutionize the overall content experience online. But, you and Adam Curry must admit that you are most proud of the iPodder innovation when you hear about old media adopting this new technology and publishing feeds with it. This is because Adam knows that the older media still reaches a huge audience and that media attention will spark other media attention that will drive grassroots level content production interest. While WebTalk may be somewhat of an exception as we are truly a hybrid media source, most other established webcasters just did not think they would see a short term audience gain with RSS enclosures to adopt it this soon.

I am different because I have always tried to play on all the new and old distribution platforms (you can hear more on this by listening to this 26 minute interview). Most of our WebTalk listeners are not webloggers, who currently are the majority of podcast creators and listeners. I do feel that podcasting is a revolution of sorts, but just feel that this revolution started long-ago. We are all getting to benefit from this revolution now because we are at the right time at the right place and all the innovation stars have aligned.

Power to the content producer, because without good content the technology would just be technology and would not inspire us to keep using the technology and creating more innovation.
 

Rob Greenlee is host of the WebTalkGuys Radio Show, a Tacoma-based nationally syndicated radio and webcast show featuring technology news and interviews.